According to a recent study by IELTS (International English Language Testing System), the preferred English proficiency test in Vietnam, the English proficiency of Vietnam has dropped from 23rd out of 40 countries surveyed in 2022 to 29th out of 39 countries surveyed in 2023-24.
I doubt the lack of native teachers in Vietnam would have too much impact, except on perhaps on the youngest students. People who missed opportunities to study abroad might be a factor. During COVID people became comfortable with online teachers. They may get more access to natives as a result. I agree that an expanded pool of people who actually take the test is a major factor.
There’s a lot to unpack here but the lower test scores don’t correlate to a lack of English teachers. There was a large crackdown on ‘back packer’ teachers who were often teaching without a degree and other necessary documents. Yes, Covid saw a large exodus of teachers – qualified and unqualified – but many have returned.
The visa rules were ‘tightened’ up but if you work for a proper school and/or language centre, and have the requisite qualifications then the process isn’t too bad. I’ve been teaching out here for five years (public schools, centres, universities) and, if anything, there’s a push to rely less on foreign teachers and more on (often very capable) local teachers.
The real scandal lies within the IELTS system which has created a culture of teaching to test over real language acquisition. Not to mention the millions of dollars drained from Vietnamese parents who will often spend more than they earn on English lessons.
You said that "lower test scores don't correlate to a lack of English teachers" but didn't explained why you think that.
The reason I started becoming interested in this subject is I had three families approach me to ask if I could help them find an English tutor last month. I said I would ask around, but I could only find one person interested in meeting with them. When I met with him for coffee, he explained to me why native English teachers are in short supply.
I wish I could say this is an anomaly, but I have had many families and schools try to recruit me to help them with their teacher shortages. This includes one woman who said I was her only hope after her child already failed the IELTS test twice. Unfortunately it seems I am constantly explaining to these desperate parents that I am not trained to be a teacher nor do I want to be employed as one. I do offer free conversation if someone wants to meet for coffee and I will even pay for their drinks if I think they are serious about learning.
I know this additional information is just anecdotal, which is why I never brought it up in the article, but I would really like to hear the reasons why you think there are enough teachers and an alternate explanation about why test scores are slipping so I can pass this information on to some of these desperate parents.
I imagine Korean, Japanese and Chinese languages would be popular also, perhaps impacting on numbers...? I came across a kid a couple of years ago who spoke to me in "YouTubeese" 😳 He could only speak with an inflection as though he was talking to a video audience e.g. Yo guys, wassup?! Where you from, man? 🤣 Sounded horrible 😫
Interesting. However, Canada (for immigration purposes) has considered IELTS of around 4 to be basic. IELTS 6 would be in the intermediate range, I believe. (Perhaps low intermediate).
Thank you for the correction. I was not aware there were set standards for English requirements. I picked 6 because that seems to be the minimum standard I have seen for admission to the gifted schools in Ho Chi Minh City. It also seems to be the minimum level many of my Vietnamese friends reach before we start to have really good discussions. I will admit, I didn't spend a lot of time researching standard requirements.
There are different requirements for different purposes. For post-secondary studies in Canada, 6.5 is often the required minimum. But that is not cionsidered "basic". I believe that is internediate or high intermediate.
I have a 12-year-old stepdaughter whom I first met when she was four. We sent her to English school outside the public schools because the public school English teachers are abysmal; the few that I’ve met were embarrassed to meet me because they could not carry on a simple conversation that I could have with my six-year-old daughter after two years of living with me and speaking English only with me every day.
After three years twice a week at the English school, she asked if she could stop going because she knew more than her teachers. The teaching materials had numerous errors both spelling, and grammatical, that she pointed out to me to make her case.
In addition to the additional information you called for, I would like to know what percentage of the children taking the test have had after school tutoring in English. In my anecdotal experience, there are a hell of a lot of “English“ teachers here whom I, a US-born native English speaker, can barely understand. They are by no means “native speakers“. Additional pertinent information here is that I can understand a Scottish brogue better than I can understand many of the foreigners people here who are teaching these poor children “English“.
Look at any of the many expat groups on Facebook here and you will see way too many “English” teachers with horrible grammar and worse spelling. Yes, I know it’s only Facebook, but an “English” teacher should not sound like a trailer park third grade dropout.
In short, the problem may be quantity, but it is also quality.
I could tell you some horror stories that I have heard from other parents but I don't want to discourage anyone from this much needed profession. I will just say white skin does not necessarily equate to English proficiency.
When I talked to my English teacher acquaintance, we discussed another reason why it is so difficult to find English teachers outside the major cities. Visas are issued by the learning centers with rules determined at the provincial level. That means there are 58 different sets of rules these teachers need to navigate. No wonder they stay in the largest cities leaving fewer teachers to be spread among the other 55 provinces. That seems to be what you are experiencing. Because you live in a smaller city, your city gets the dregs.
It would probably be better if Vietnam offered an English Visa for several years. This would allow the state to insure the teachers were qualified and remove the burden on the schools and English centers of dealing with all of the provincial paperwork and fees. But I am just some guy on the internet. I am sure there are much smarter people than me trying to figure this out.
I doubt the lack of native teachers in Vietnam would have too much impact, except on perhaps on the youngest students. People who missed opportunities to study abroad might be a factor. During COVID people became comfortable with online teachers. They may get more access to natives as a result. I agree that an expanded pool of people who actually take the test is a major factor.
There’s a lot to unpack here but the lower test scores don’t correlate to a lack of English teachers. There was a large crackdown on ‘back packer’ teachers who were often teaching without a degree and other necessary documents. Yes, Covid saw a large exodus of teachers – qualified and unqualified – but many have returned.
The visa rules were ‘tightened’ up but if you work for a proper school and/or language centre, and have the requisite qualifications then the process isn’t too bad. I’ve been teaching out here for five years (public schools, centres, universities) and, if anything, there’s a push to rely less on foreign teachers and more on (often very capable) local teachers.
The real scandal lies within the IELTS system which has created a culture of teaching to test over real language acquisition. Not to mention the millions of dollars drained from Vietnamese parents who will often spend more than they earn on English lessons.
You said that "lower test scores don't correlate to a lack of English teachers" but didn't explained why you think that.
The reason I started becoming interested in this subject is I had three families approach me to ask if I could help them find an English tutor last month. I said I would ask around, but I could only find one person interested in meeting with them. When I met with him for coffee, he explained to me why native English teachers are in short supply.
I wish I could say this is an anomaly, but I have had many families and schools try to recruit me to help them with their teacher shortages. This includes one woman who said I was her only hope after her child already failed the IELTS test twice. Unfortunately it seems I am constantly explaining to these desperate parents that I am not trained to be a teacher nor do I want to be employed as one. I do offer free conversation if someone wants to meet for coffee and I will even pay for their drinks if I think they are serious about learning.
I know this additional information is just anecdotal, which is why I never brought it up in the article, but I would really like to hear the reasons why you think there are enough teachers and an alternate explanation about why test scores are slipping so I can pass this information on to some of these desperate parents.
I imagine Korean, Japanese and Chinese languages would be popular also, perhaps impacting on numbers...? I came across a kid a couple of years ago who spoke to me in "YouTubeese" 😳 He could only speak with an inflection as though he was talking to a video audience e.g. Yo guys, wassup?! Where you from, man? 🤣 Sounded horrible 😫
Interesting. However, Canada (for immigration purposes) has considered IELTS of around 4 to be basic. IELTS 6 would be in the intermediate range, I believe. (Perhaps low intermediate).
Thank you for the correction. I was not aware there were set standards for English requirements. I picked 6 because that seems to be the minimum standard I have seen for admission to the gifted schools in Ho Chi Minh City. It also seems to be the minimum level many of my Vietnamese friends reach before we start to have really good discussions. I will admit, I didn't spend a lot of time researching standard requirements.
There are different requirements for different purposes. For post-secondary studies in Canada, 6.5 is often the required minimum. But that is not cionsidered "basic". I believe that is internediate or high intermediate.
I have a 12-year-old stepdaughter whom I first met when she was four. We sent her to English school outside the public schools because the public school English teachers are abysmal; the few that I’ve met were embarrassed to meet me because they could not carry on a simple conversation that I could have with my six-year-old daughter after two years of living with me and speaking English only with me every day.
After three years twice a week at the English school, she asked if she could stop going because she knew more than her teachers. The teaching materials had numerous errors both spelling, and grammatical, that she pointed out to me to make her case.
In addition to the additional information you called for, I would like to know what percentage of the children taking the test have had after school tutoring in English. In my anecdotal experience, there are a hell of a lot of “English“ teachers here whom I, a US-born native English speaker, can barely understand. They are by no means “native speakers“. Additional pertinent information here is that I can understand a Scottish brogue better than I can understand many of the foreigners people here who are teaching these poor children “English“.
Look at any of the many expat groups on Facebook here and you will see way too many “English” teachers with horrible grammar and worse spelling. Yes, I know it’s only Facebook, but an “English” teacher should not sound like a trailer park third grade dropout.
In short, the problem may be quantity, but it is also quality.
I could tell you some horror stories that I have heard from other parents but I don't want to discourage anyone from this much needed profession. I will just say white skin does not necessarily equate to English proficiency.
When I talked to my English teacher acquaintance, we discussed another reason why it is so difficult to find English teachers outside the major cities. Visas are issued by the learning centers with rules determined at the provincial level. That means there are 58 different sets of rules these teachers need to navigate. No wonder they stay in the largest cities leaving fewer teachers to be spread among the other 55 provinces. That seems to be what you are experiencing. Because you live in a smaller city, your city gets the dregs.
It would probably be better if Vietnam offered an English Visa for several years. This would allow the state to insure the teachers were qualified and remove the burden on the schools and English centers of dealing with all of the provincial paperwork and fees. But I am just some guy on the internet. I am sure there are much smarter people than me trying to figure this out.