Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that Western cultures may have made a mistake when they started breaking up the extended family in favor of a nuclear family.
Jun 28·edited Jun 28Liked by Postcards from Vietnam
Thank you for referencing and linking to my post on Family.
I would like to clarify something. Above, you wrote:
"He did a great job of explaining how he was training his daughter not to feel the burden to take care of her parents as she grew older and to demonstrate to her the importance of independence."
I am actually attempting to teach my daughter that her mother should work for as long as she can (at least to 60) and that ONLY THEN should my daughter step in and help. That her mother does not now work as much as I think she should to build her business while she can weather mistakes by falling back on my income, tells me that once I'm gone (I'm significantly older and will, the odds say, leave the planet before her), she will not suddenly work harder. She will instead demand that her daughter support her sloth.
I am teaching my daughter that she has options. Being a kind and generous person, my daughter will give in to her mother... but hopefully less so because she see's me still working in my 70's while her mother prefers to socialize.
My daughter's grandparents live with us in a house I built, in case anyone's wondering. Re helping with chores, grandma cooks a couple times a week while grandpa either watches TV or goes to the cafe with friends, never lifting a finger to help with anything.
Many Asian countries have to live this way, as you said there is no such thing as Government support like we have in Australia, or you, if you were still in the US for example. Italians and Greeks, particularly when they immigrated to Australia to live all resided in the same house until each of their children could buy their own home. There is an Italian family who lived two houses up from us who did just that, they still live in the community and each generation has taken over the Greengrocery business they bought at least 50 years ago. We are fortunate to have a close knit family, our grandchildren keep in touch and our eldest daughter and youngest son would quite happily have us living next door just to keep an eye on us. They have said definitely there is no way we are going into a nursing home, and we definitely have made the decision never to move into a retirement village. Lucky for us we are still in good health at coming up 80. Thank you for another good read.
I was just talking to my mom about this yesterday and she mentioned to me that what I am describing about East Asian cultures is similar to the family dynamics from her mothers generation. I don't know if I would go that far to say they are similar. There is some baggage to the Vietnamese dynamic which I didn't want to bring up in the article.
The newer generations have a much healthier dynamic like the one you have with your own children. Your dynamic is what I hope for when I am older too.
Jun 28·edited Jun 28Liked by Postcards from Vietnam
I'm guessing your grandmother's generation was born pre-FDR, as was my mother's. I point this out because FDR (President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, for those not familiar with US history) gave us Social Security in the late-1930's. Before that, there was no real middle class and no income for most who retired. This meant that if they weren't wealthy, the family had to take care of them. Or they ate dog food to survive.
It's my opinion that if East Asian countries suddenly had a safety net like Social Security, the current family dynamics would change rapidly within two generations as it did in the US. The option of living apart from the grandparents would start with the grandfathers that act like kings/tyrants and spread from there.
Oh yes, that was my Grandmother's generation. I noticed quite a bit more family connection with that generation than I do with Boomer and later generations.
You may very well be on to something here. I notice Vietnamese families tend to be less cohesive by the second or third generation in the U.S. as well.
You briefly touch on something I was tempted to bring up, but decided it ruined the tone of the article. That was the Gia Long code. The code was already dying 50 years ago, but it basically meant children had no rights until they got married. I may need to write about this.
An article about the Gia Long code is going to take way longer than I imagined. I started getting into the research on this and started comparing Magna Carta to the Confucius ideal of order. The very core of law is completely different. I could write an article on comparing core philosophies alone. I will let you know when I start to get something together.
Interesting that today we have to be so politically correct, I am at the age where I say what I think, but then if you ask my family and friends nothing has changed lol…
Thank you for referencing and linking to my post on Family.
I would like to clarify something. Above, you wrote:
"He did a great job of explaining how he was training his daughter not to feel the burden to take care of her parents as she grew older and to demonstrate to her the importance of independence."
I am actually attempting to teach my daughter that her mother should work for as long as she can (at least to 60) and that ONLY THEN should my daughter step in and help. That her mother does not now work as much as I think she should to build her business while she can weather mistakes by falling back on my income, tells me that once I'm gone (I'm significantly older and will, the odds say, leave the planet before her), she will not suddenly work harder. She will instead demand that her daughter support her sloth.
I am teaching my daughter that she has options. Being a kind and generous person, my daughter will give in to her mother... but hopefully less so because she see's me still working in my 70's while her mother prefers to socialize.
My daughter's grandparents live with us in a house I built, in case anyone's wondering. Re helping with chores, grandma cooks a couple times a week while grandpa either watches TV or goes to the cafe with friends, never lifting a finger to help with anything.
Many Asian countries have to live this way, as you said there is no such thing as Government support like we have in Australia, or you, if you were still in the US for example. Italians and Greeks, particularly when they immigrated to Australia to live all resided in the same house until each of their children could buy their own home. There is an Italian family who lived two houses up from us who did just that, they still live in the community and each generation has taken over the Greengrocery business they bought at least 50 years ago. We are fortunate to have a close knit family, our grandchildren keep in touch and our eldest daughter and youngest son would quite happily have us living next door just to keep an eye on us. They have said definitely there is no way we are going into a nursing home, and we definitely have made the decision never to move into a retirement village. Lucky for us we are still in good health at coming up 80. Thank you for another good read.
I was just talking to my mom about this yesterday and she mentioned to me that what I am describing about East Asian cultures is similar to the family dynamics from her mothers generation. I don't know if I would go that far to say they are similar. There is some baggage to the Vietnamese dynamic which I didn't want to bring up in the article.
The newer generations have a much healthier dynamic like the one you have with your own children. Your dynamic is what I hope for when I am older too.
I'm guessing your grandmother's generation was born pre-FDR, as was my mother's. I point this out because FDR (President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, for those not familiar with US history) gave us Social Security in the late-1930's. Before that, there was no real middle class and no income for most who retired. This meant that if they weren't wealthy, the family had to take care of them. Or they ate dog food to survive.
It's my opinion that if East Asian countries suddenly had a safety net like Social Security, the current family dynamics would change rapidly within two generations as it did in the US. The option of living apart from the grandparents would start with the grandfathers that act like kings/tyrants and spread from there.
Oh yes, that was my Grandmother's generation. I noticed quite a bit more family connection with that generation than I do with Boomer and later generations.
You may very well be on to something here. I notice Vietnamese families tend to be less cohesive by the second or third generation in the U.S. as well.
You briefly touch on something I was tempted to bring up, but decided it ruined the tone of the article. That was the Gia Long code. The code was already dying 50 years ago, but it basically meant children had no rights until they got married. I may need to write about this.
I think a post on that would really help Expat understand Vietnam. I look forward to reading it.
I will put that on my list. Maybe the mid week article next week.
An article about the Gia Long code is going to take way longer than I imagined. I started getting into the research on this and started comparing Magna Carta to the Confucius ideal of order. The very core of law is completely different. I could write an article on comparing core philosophies alone. I will let you know when I start to get something together.
Interesting that today we have to be so politically correct, I am at the age where I say what I think, but then if you ask my family and friends nothing has changed lol…